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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of look on the

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assay

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oh my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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were touching outside of sphere

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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that ufo podcast is powered by zen

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of anyone with a story to tell features

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can record from anywhere without ever

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installing anything check out the links

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in the show description to find out more

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast we're kicking off december with

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a bonus episode this is one that i did

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not plan on doing at all honestly and in

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the last couple of weeks i've had quite

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a few dms and emails from people asking

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to cover a particular case

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now i i always got back to those people

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saying why i wasn't particularly

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interested necessarily and why i thought

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there wasn't much to it but people have

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requested and yesterday i was discussing

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it with some of my colleagues from uap

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media and as i was discussing the case

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uh i got an email again from a listener

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asking to to do a show on it or a bit of

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a deep dive so we decided you know what

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let's get on let's record let's share

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our share our opinions and and put it

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out there for people to make up their

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own mind um so uh february 26 2016 in a

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small town in wales called pentark

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something unusual is claimed to have

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happened multiple witnesses claim to

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have seen crafts

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lights orbs odd snow

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men in hazmat suits all in an incredible

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experience

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one of the main witnesses kaz clark has

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since become a bit of a name on the the

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circuit for ufos and has since appeared

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on various channels and articles news

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websites sharing her story as well as

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the story of other witnesses who are

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part of this

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i've not picked up myself because in

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speaking to a few serious researchers

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and respected researchers

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there seems to be a lot of issues with

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the story with the incident and

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everything around it that for me points

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to the fact that this was not an

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extraterrestrial experience

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so what i've done is invite dave

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partridge from shadow's earmine magazine

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and graham randall author and friend as

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they both are of mine from uap media uk

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to discuss this with us and just break

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down what exactly went on so first off

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graham how are we

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fine andy how are you

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yes i'm good i'm looking forward to

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speaking about this because i think it's

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only fair we we give this some time and

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put it out there for people who want to

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to hear it discussed and dave are you

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with us as well

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yeah are you doing man

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awesome yeah i'm good

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so yeah listen both of you gents i

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highly respect your opinion and we don't

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always all agree on stuff which i like

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but this is one where you've both

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presented in the group chat and

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individual chats and face to face when

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we met up uh some

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some really well thought out points as

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to why

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pentoc wasn't a ufo caser experience as

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a general overview graeme let's start

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with yourself

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on pentarc what have been your your

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thoughts and opinions on on the case

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since it's sort of come to light

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so the first thing i came across when i

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heard the individual elements of the

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story

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it was only your first it was your first

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impression of a couple of things that i

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first heard about and it was well that's

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intriguing i want to know more like you

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would with any other case but then as i

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heard more and more about all the

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different elements and everything that's

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supposed to have happened that evening

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and over the next day

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then it just seemed to me that this was

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a case that was too good to be true and

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it was something that basically you've

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got elements of maybe five or six great

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cases and then somebody just literally

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throw them all together into one super

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case and to me that didn't quite add up

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so that's

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starter set alarm bells ringing with me

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as to well come on you know there must

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be either more to this story in terms of

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more rational explanation or something

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else going on but what about all these

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individual elements you know how how

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true are they how do they stack up with

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each other is there anything that could

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explain what was going on so we went

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from there

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okay and dave what about yourself what

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sort of things stood out for you when

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you first heard about the incident

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well the first time i heard of it would

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have been on the

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paranormal scholar youtube channel

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and they did a video on the third of may

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saying oh it's the greatest ufo cover-up

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of modern times um

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i thought i'll see what this is all

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about and i was watching a video and as

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i was watching a video and kaz clark was

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visiting all these different locations

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where she claimed she saw

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you know

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giant pyramid craft and

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you know these ufos appearing from

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nowhere i was

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actually doing research at the time um

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as she was speaking so i was on google

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earth i was checking out all these

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locations

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and as i was doing so things didn't add

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up to me um so after i watched the video

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i started digging around a bit and

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doing other research and i've come

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to believe that it's actually not a ufo

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event at all

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and this is why obviously massive

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respect for both of you and the work you

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both put in and graham i always say your

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expertise particularly if from a

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military point of view you're really

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good with that kind of stuff your

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encyclopedic knowledge that you both

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have is phenomenal

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not to blow too much smoke up your

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backsides

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and dave yourself as well but again just

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the research and the knowledge you have

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particularly of those ufo cases from the

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uk so when you both come to me and say

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there's there's nothing to this and

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here's why and you laid out a lot of

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really interesting things on the table

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this is what i want to get across to the

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listeners again

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don't take what what graham and dave or

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myself have as an opinion and make it

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your own you've got to make up your own

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mind but we're just putting another case

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across for this that says look there's a

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lot to say that this one wasn't a ufo

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case necessarily there was something

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unidentified but

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there's a few issues with it dave we'll

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keep on with yourself then so you you

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said you started seeing some some issues

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with the case what was the things that

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jumped out straight away for you that

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that got you really questioning this one

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well the first thing was um this alleged

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bold patch in a in one of the fields

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where um kaz was

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you know where she claimed that ufo

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would touch

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touch ground almost landed or it hovered

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about 10 feet above the ground

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and the story has changed since the

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original event as well so that's another

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reason why

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you know i kind of wanted to look into

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it

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um and the fact that she we only have

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her testimony and that of her neighbor

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and subsequently a researcher called

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gary jones

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we only have their word to take for this

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you know there's been nothing else

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but this bold patch i was looking at and

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i found the location on google earth and

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google earth has these um historic

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timeline feature so you can look back at

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various satellite photos or you know

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from the google balloon or the google

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play or whatever

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and so i identified the field where this

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bold patch was and then i went back

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through

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the various years and i could not see

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any change

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in the um in the foliage or the

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scrub land in that particular field at

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all so

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once i discovered that i started looking

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at other elements of that story

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and that's when i found out that

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um on that particular night the 25th and

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the 26th of february 2016

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there was a special forces training

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exercise called exercise comedian which

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was taking place in the clantrisson area

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um so i started looking into that

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exercise comedian is a bi-annual

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um

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special forces training exercise which

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includes the air force the army the

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royal navy

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um and it's just

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i don't get exercise comedian is a

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multi-disciplinary

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special forces training exercise

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contains the air force the army and the

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navy

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um it usually starts in scotland or the

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northeast of the uk and then makes its

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way down to wales obviously the brecon

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beacons is a favored training

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site of the sas

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so when i found out that

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this particular exercise was taking

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place at that exact time on that exact

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night

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that kaz clark is saying this ufo

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appeared and she's claiming that

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you know the the military was there and

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they

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were awaiting this ufo to turn up

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you know that's another reason why i

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started uh debating what what she was

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actually claiming

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and let me ask dave now it's it's

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something that's easily thrown at these

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things that oh it was a military

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exercise i've said myself to not be a

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hypocrite that the phoenix lights is

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probably my favorite ufo case given it's

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how recent it was and it was just

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frustratingly off of us having really

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good cameras to pick up that kind of

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stuff a few years away from cell phones

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being really popular and having videos

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and we could have had an incredible like

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you know kind of mass sighting on camera

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but

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we we had the cover-up from that point

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of view that it was a military exercise

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it was flares dropping however you're

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saying this is a biannual so twice a

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year exercise and i take it this had

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happened before february 2016. this

280
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:21,120
wasn't the first

281
00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:24,880
you know the two weeks prior it had been

282
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:26,800
taking place in the north of england and

283
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:28,240
in scotland you know

284
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,240
in earlier this year

285
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,720
uh it was taking place you know around

286
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,800
dundee and then it moved down to wales

287
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,720
two weeks later

288
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:38,399
um so

289
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:40,399
you know you have various different

290
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:42,800
aircrafts are involved in this and

291
00:10:45,829 --> 00:10:44,399
graham can probably tell you more about

292
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:45,839
those

293
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:47,760
yeah let's hand over then graham from a

294
00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:49,120
military point of view you've got a

295
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:50,959
fantastic knowledge

296
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:53,920
kaz and others claim to have seen large

297
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:56,240
craft rings of lights and there's

298
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:58,079
various artists impressions of those

299
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,480
being drawn up what is it likely that

300
00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:02,240
they were actually seeing

301
00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:04,240
on this occasion to be honest because i

302
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:05,600
wasn't there i can't actually say

303
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:07,360
however i can speak to chameleon in

304
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:09,600
terms of yes it's true it's on twice a

305
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:11,920
year and it goes back a fair while it's

306
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:14,800
long before 2016. and if you look at the

307
00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:17,040
um some of the enthusia aircraft

308
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:19,120
enthusiasts forums on the internet

309
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,320
you'll be able to find out which

310
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,240
particular aircraft were involved and

311
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:24,240
even down to the actual serials of the

312
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:26,000
individual aircraft that were taking

313
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:28,560
part in the exercise and each time round

314
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:30,160
now these particular aircraft were based

315
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,519
up as you say in the north of england to

316
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:33,600
start with and they were operating out

317
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,120
of liming and dishverth which are

318
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:37,519
aircraft airfields in north yorkshire so

319
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:39,680
you had helicopters you had hercules

320
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,640
transports um you had other aircraft

321
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:45,040
involved in it um and they're all to do

322
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,200
with this this exercise which is also

323
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:49,519
involving elements of the special forces

324
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:50,399
so

325
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:54,160
coming out with in terms of the story

326
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:56,160
and i'll just pick a couple at random if

327
00:11:59,430 --> 00:11:57,920
you don't mind uh just to go through

328
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,440
these because yeah sure again i can't

329
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,600
really answer what the individual things

330
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,000
were um because they're quite difficult

331
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,560
to pin down but in terms of red and

332
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,240
green lights i mean they're navigation

333
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:10,560
lights uh on an aircraft so there's one

334
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:13,120
possible explanation but also they could

335
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,560
have been the kind of le led kind of

336
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,800
lights that you have or strapped to the

337
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:20,560
legs of people who are parachuting

338
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,639
because that's a particular thing that

339
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:24,320
they do nowadays as well you can

340
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,680
actually buy those things i think on

341
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:28,079
ebay even um you know people have uh

342
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,480
pointed these out that um you know that

343
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,839
they're kind of identifying mocks

344
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:33,120
especially for exercise if you want to

345
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,720
see where people go in the dark because

346
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:36,079
these people were being parachuted in

347
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,360
the dark

348
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,200
in terms of the exercise so there's

349
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:40,800
another possible explanation for these

350
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:42,000
red and green lights that were flying

351
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,279
around the skies

352
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:44,959
but then there's other parts of the

353
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:47,680
story um they mentioned in one

354
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,639
particular case of a an e3 sentry

355
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,399
aircraft which is an a-wax an early

356
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:54,160
warning the aircraft the ones that have

357
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:55,839
the big mushrooms on top of them for the

358
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:58,880
airborne radar and it was flying at very

359
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:00,880
at very low level according to the

360
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:03,279
according to the story now

361
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,959
if you're flying down a welsh valley now

362
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:07,040
that's fair enough for fast fast jets

363
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,040
for you know for typhoons and another

364
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:10,560
aircraft like that the ground attack

365
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,360
aircraft the fighter aircraft but an a

366
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:15,839
large airframe basically a converted

367
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:17,920
civil airliner which it's not quite but

368
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:20,800
it's near enough an analogy like the e3

369
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:24,959
uh awak a wax aircraft doesn't go down

370
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:27,600
you know one of the the kind of you know

371
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:30,000
a mountain valley at low level because

372
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:31,600
they're not built for that thing for

373
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:33,440
that kind of flight first of all but

374
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,839
also it's beyond the mission parameters

375
00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:37,519
because the idea of an airborne radar is

376
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:39,279
that it sits at altitude because then

377
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:41,040
the radar can see a much greater

378
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,720
distance if you put it in a mountain

379
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:44,560
valley then it's not going to see very

380
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:45,279
far

381
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:47,920
so it it just makes sense at all they

382
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:50,399
don't even train flying down valleys you

383
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:52,000
never ever see them the only time you

384
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:53,519
ever see one of those aircraft at lower

385
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:56,000
level is either possibly an air show

386
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,000
which is very rare or you see them

387
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:00,720
coming into land or taking off so that

388
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,519
bit didn't make sense either and anybody

389
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:05,279
people i've spoke to who having more of

390
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:07,120
a knowledge of the raf than i do and

391
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:09,040
have experience of flying in the rf

392
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,320
couldn't come up with an explanation

393
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,639
either as to why an e3 sentry would be

394
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,639
flying at lower level so there's there's

395
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,320
one thing okay so there's another

396
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,160
element of the story which i heard that

397
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,240
was to do with a possible royal

398
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:22,720
connection so this speaks to the kind of

399
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,560
throwing everything at the kitchen sink

400
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,279
at the story and there was a mention of

401
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:29,360
one of the royal flight um

402
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:32,480
146 four engine jet transports that's a

403
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,360
vip aircraft and it come into car into

404
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:37,680
cardiff airport with what they said was

405
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,399
a kitty uh call sign now that's a fairly

406
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:41,920
standard raf call sign for this

407
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,760
particular flight

408
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:44,880
and they were saying that there was a

409
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:46,160
royal connection that there was

410
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,600
something you know some kind of

411
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:49,760
involvement with senior

412
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:51,920
raf officials being brought into cardiff

413
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:54,000
airport to either oversee or to do

414
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:55,199
something with this

415
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,160
exercise about chasing this ufo down but

416
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,160
as it turns out the royal flight

417
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,160
aircraft when it uses kitty is a call

418
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:05,040
sign is a positioning flight to pick up

419
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:06,160
a royal

420
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:09,040
when there are no royals on board one of

421
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:10,880
these aircraft they use the callsign

422
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,199
kitty when one is they can use the call

423
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,279
sign kitty hawk and when it returned to

424
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,519
london later that evening it was using a

425
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:19,440
kitty hawk call sign and it actually

426
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:20,959
picked up i think it was prince charles

427
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,720
it had picked up uh he was either

428
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:24,560
visiting somewhere in the area as some

429
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,320
kind of official function that day and

430
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:28,560
it was to take him home so you know

431
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:30,800
there's an explanation for that as well

432
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,560
so there are various elements of the

433
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:35,040
story which have an aviation site which

434
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:37,759
have been sort of purported to be you

435
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,399
know included in this whole elaborate

436
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:42,720
story about this this huge event but

437
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,600
actually when you look at them

438
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:45,600
individually none of them really either

439
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,560
makes sense or they have perfectly you

440
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,560
know rational explanations which you

441
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:52,560
know you just explain these things away

442
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,920
so

443
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:55,360
that doesn't stand up that these

444
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,720
elements don't stand up for me i'm

445
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:58,000
afraid

446
00:16:02,230 --> 00:15:59,519
on you go dave

447
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:02,240
yeah and just to add to graham's kitty

448
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:05,920
hawk explanation um on social media on

449
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:08,399
that very night there were

450
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:10,480
you know tweets and facebook posts from

451
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,240
local residents complaining about the

452
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,560
noise of the helicopters and

453
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,920
you know there's

454
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,839
um all these explosions and bangs and

455
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:18,959
people were

456
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,240
were worried that there was something

457
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:23,040
going on um however this was explained

458
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:23,839
by

459
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:26,000
south wales police at the time on all

460
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:27,440
these social media channels that it was

461
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:29,040
a military exercise

462
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:32,160
now one social media post did make the

463
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,959
comment that the welsh rugby union team

464
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:37,120
was staying in a nearby hotel because

465
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:40,399
they had a game coming up and that's why

466
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,440
prince william is um a president of the

467
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:46,079
welsh rugby union or you know he has

468
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:47,199
some

469
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:48,560
he's like a patron of the welterweight

470
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,880
reunion i think so that's possibly why

471
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,560
kitty hawk had been

472
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:54,079
used as a call sign because he was

473
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,480
either visiting the players

474
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:58,079
while they were training or you know

475
00:17:02,230 --> 00:16:59,519
he'd been to the game i can't remember

476
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,240
if there was a game on that night but

477
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:05,199
um but with regards one of the claims

478
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:06,720
that kaz clark has always leveled and

479
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:09,360
gary jones is that the local residents

480
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:12,640
weren't notified that this was happening

481
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:16,160
um and the way to check that is by doing

482
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,549
is kind of a system whereby

483
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,319
local residents and local councils are

484
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,319
notified about

485
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:27,919
military exercises or low-flying

486
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:29,200
aircraft

487
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:30,840
around that area

488
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:33,360
and unfortunately the no time search

489
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:36,000
only goes back so far but somebody

490
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:37,919
has managed to find

491
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,360
um two note hams for february 26 and

492
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:43,600
february 20 25th

493
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,440
uh the first one says valid from nine

494
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:47,760
o'clock on the 25th to seven o'clock in

495
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:49,840
the morning on the 26th

496
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,240
um from the surface up to 5000 feet

497
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,160
exercise chameleon up to seven

498
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:57,039
helicopters operating without lighting

499
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,080
within a five nautical mile radius

500
00:18:04,590 --> 00:18:02,799
centered near cladtressend aircraft will

501
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,600
remain clear of controlled airspace

502
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:06,480
non-participating military aircraft

503
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,080
shall avoid the area

504
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:10,559
the second one was from midnight to four

505
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:13,120
o'clock on february the 26th up to

506
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:14,640
eighteen thousand feet exercise

507
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:17,280
chameleon parachute jumping exercise

508
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,080
within a ten nautical mile radius again

509
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,640
centered near clantrissons the drop is

510
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:24,640
contained within the following cone and

511
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:25,919
there's a map

512
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:27,440
so

513
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:31,120
the public were notified and unless

514
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,799
well i suppose unless you knew where to

515
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:34,080
find that information you wouldn't know

516
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,080
about it so it's no surprise that people

517
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,000
were wondering what was going on but the

518
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:41,280
fact that these no terms do exist

519
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:42,960
indicate that there were

520
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,600
high-level parachute jumps going on and

521
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:47,440
if it's happening at night you know up

522
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,640
to four o'clock in the morning in

523
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:50,799
february it's gonna be pitch black so it

524
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:52,640
makes sense that these parachute jumpers

525
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:55,039
do have some kind of visible

526
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:58,720
identification on them such as red leds

527
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:01,360
which is often the case in nighttime sky

528
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,400
jumps

529
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[Music]

573
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:49,919
just doing a quick check on the the

574
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,679
february 26 2016 uh rugby wales played

575
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:55,919
france at the principality stadium and

576
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,320
prince william was in attendance who is

577
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,640
a vice royal patron of the welsh rugby

578
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:03,039
union so i imagine that again just as

579
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,480
the detail of what you were looking for

580
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,720
so yeah absolutely spot on in terms of

581
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,720
the date there was a rugby game on and

582
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:10,559
of course any number of royals and

583
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,520
celebrities would have been in

584
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,200
attendance at that as well it was quite

585
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:15,360
a big game at the time so so yeah spot

586
00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:16,640
on gents graham you want to come in

587
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:18,320
there yeah it's just um just an

588
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:20,559
explanation about notams it means no

589
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:22,400
notice to airmen so there are actually

590
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:24,640
things to advise other airmen as well so

591
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:26,000
like private pilots about things that

592
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:27,280
are happening in the airspace around the

593
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:29,679
uk the descriptions that dave gave of

594
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:32,720
tho those particular days those you can

595
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:35,520
you see those explanations for a whole

596
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:37,200
load of exercises that happen right

597
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:38,960
around the country you know every week

598
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:41,760
of the year so you will see those kind

599
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,360
of descriptions about the heights

600
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:45,520
involved and often parachute jumps at

601
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,159
night in different places that wording

602
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,159
your use it's quite standard so there's

603
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:52,240
nothing you know out of the ordinary at

604
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:55,120
all for those two days you will see that

605
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:57,200
kind of thing replicated in different

606
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,840
locations right across the country

607
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:01,440
let me stay with theogram on this as

608
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,200
well now you

609
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:04,960
you've mentioned military exercise

610
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,200
you've both mentioned you know the

611
00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:09,840
what's been described as being seen why

612
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:12,320
are military exercises being held so

613
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,679
close to

614
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:16,080
to us a civilian area that's that's well

615
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:18,159
populated why is this even able to be

616
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:22,480
seen by with the naked eye so close up

617
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:24,400
i mean they run out of places to train

618
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,000
basically they don't like to train in

619
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,799
the same place all the time so there's

620
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,240
one thing where there's different parts

621
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,159
of the country which are quite sensitive

622
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,480
to low-level flying for one thing i'm

623
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:36,080
just looking from that aspect so they

624
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:37,760
try and change the routes that the

625
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,760
aircraft fly the different areas where

626
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:41,760
they do the low-flying training but for

627
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,320
ground exercises as well then you know

628
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,080
you can only get so much value out of a

629
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:48,480
certain place to use it over a certain

630
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:50,559
period of time they have to look for new

631
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:53,520
places or just change them around now it

632
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:54,960
might be that the specifics of this

633
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:57,440
particular exercise needed somewhere

634
00:23:02,230 --> 00:22:59,600
which was a bit closer to a built-up

635
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,240
area um but then again you see we're in

636
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,679
the now in the realms of trying to get

637
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:05,360
the motives of the particular exercise

638
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,880
and that's quite difficult especially

639
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:08,559
from a special forces point of view

640
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,720
because if you ask you know the the

641
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:12,080
military or the government about any

642
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:14,880
particular um sf exercise you will run

643
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:17,840
against i believe it's 20 section 26 uh

644
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:20,720
um you know in terms of fire where you

645
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,240
just don't get a response because they

646
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:24,559
never ever comment on special forces

647
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:27,360
matters so if any exercise has any even

648
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:28,720
just a hint of an element of this kind

649
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:31,120
of thing that's what you run up against

650
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:32,799
but there will probably be some reason

651
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:34,720
why it was so close

652
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:36,559
i was going to say i suppose again for

653
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,679
me being a total novice on this that a

654
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:41,679
an area can be picked and designated

655
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:43,840
because it resembles for example a

656
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,679
mountain range in afghanistan yeah it

657
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:47,440
could be similar and they pick it just

658
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:48,640
and that's why you're not going to find

659
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:50,159
out are you why they've picked that

660
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,760
would that be along the right lines well

661
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:53,200
they've done them in newcastle upon time

662
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:55,200
before so um they used to use the

663
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:57,279
heliport to bring in uh chinooks with

664
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:59,600
special forces on board so it's not as

665
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,799
if they haven't done this kind of thing

666
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:02,720
and built a berries before

667
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:04,480
sure dave

668
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,200
yeah just adding on to that um before

669
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,760
west ham united left upton park and

670
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:11,440
moved to the uh olympic stadium in

671
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,559
london

672
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,480
um before they demolished up some part

673
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:16,480
they did have a special forces training

674
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,559
exercise in the ground

675
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:20,480
um just to make use of the facility in

676
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:22,640
an urban setting and preparing

677
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:24,880
themselves for you know any terrorist

678
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:26,960
attack at a large event such as the

679
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,600
olympics or world cup or whatever

680
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,159
um so it does happen and you know these

681
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,919
local residents in london at that time

682
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:35,279
they weren't notified either so they're

683
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:37,200
hearing all these explosions and you

684
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,799
know gunfire coming from the stadium and

685
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,640
they wonder what's going on

686
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:42,960
um i will say at the end of the path

687
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:44,000
where

688
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:46,799
cats well kaz clark viewed all this from

689
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:47,919
a gate

690
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,880
um

691
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:50,640
which

692
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:54,559
are privately owned there's a pathway

693
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:55,840
and at the end of this pathway there's a

694
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,200
quarry

695
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:59,360
um and you know some of the training was

696
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,279
being done in the quarry as well you

697
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:02,880
know ground forces

698
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:05,440
so as you say you know replicating

699
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:07,440
afghanistan or you know some kind of

700
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:09,679
terrain like that you know that quarry

701
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,720
was obviously going to be used

702
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:13,840
there was another thing that she

703
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,799
mentioned

704
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,200
um

705
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:18,799
you know this exercise community in this

706
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:20,880
particular year was a counter terrorism

707
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:24,000
exercise as well i found out and

708
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,640
part of the training was done with the

709
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,640
cypriot national guard now whether they

710
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:30,480
were in wales as well i haven't found

711
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,679
out yet

712
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,000
but the fact that the next day she went

713
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,760
back and she was asking all these

714
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:37,679
military personnel what they were doing

715
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:39,360
there and she wasn't getting a clear

716
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,720
answer or she was getting different

717
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,360
answers if you're on a counter terrorism

718
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,960
training exercise

719
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:47,200
and somebody from the public asks you a

720
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,720
question you are not going to give them

721
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,559
a straight answer because you've

722
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,159
effectively failed that training

723
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:54,000
exercise if you do

724
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,799
so for and other witnesses to complain

725
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,080
about that

726
00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:00,000
that

727
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:02,440
it's kind of like a

728
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:05,120
non-non-event for her to actually

729
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:06,159
make that

730
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,840
assumption that they're hiding something

731
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:09,760
from it from a

732
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,520
yeah sure graham you want to come in on

733
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,679
that yeah i mean really in my experience

734
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,919
of being close to military um personnel

735
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,760
when they're actually doing exercises

736
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,520
i've attended forward air control

737
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:21,679
exercises i've controlled i've attended

738
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:24,640
live bombing exercises uh in the past

739
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:26,000
and if you get too close to them when

740
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:27,039
they're actually trying to carry out

741
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,960
their duties you often get either short

742
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:30,320
shift or you'll get some kind of like

743
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:32,559
you know kind of sort of um

744
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,559
acerbic comments or just kind of

745
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,720
deflection um you know if you ask stupid

746
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:38,320
questions you win stupid prizes kind of

747
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:40,559
thing so it's not surprising that they

748
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:41,840
would try and either fob her off with

749
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:44,480
some kind of strange story or something

750
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,360
else or just tell it to get lost um

751
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:49,919
it's not uncommon for the military to

752
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,400
not to be a bit funny when civilians are

753
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,480
either asking questions or are in the

754
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:56,320
area of when they're trying to do their

755
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:58,159
job basically

756
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,440
no i appreciate that i'm going to come

757
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:01,679
back to dave on a point i want to make

758
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:04,640
now i i've said before several times

759
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,720
including quite recently that especially

760
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:08,960
speaking to experiencers and and people

761
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,520
who have sightings like myself that it's

762
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:14,000
just my story that's it and take that at

763
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,520
face value

764
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:17,520
that this is no slight against

765
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:20,240
individuals but on this occasion caz

766
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:23,760
clark is the main witness and has has an

767
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,559
of the best way put herself out for

768
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,640
scrutiny as anyone does when they share

769
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:30,720
their story or experience we have

770
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:32,799
described a lot of issues with this

771
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:35,600
whole instant at the time and that

772
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:37,360
that's i think is building a nice case

773
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:39,120
for the fact this wasn't a ufo

774
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:40,640
experience

775
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,399
the one thing that

776
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,360
turned me off the case before i even got

777
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:47,760
interested in it was and this was from

778
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:49,120
some of the listeners who got in touch

779
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,000
with me to tell me that kaz clarke had

780
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,080
claimed on various interviews to have no

781
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:56,720
interest in ufos before this incident

782
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:58,159
which is

783
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:59,919
is fine that's that's common not

784
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:01,760
everyone has an interest in the subject

785
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,799
however

786
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:04,640
people then managed to find on her

787
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:06,799
public facebook profile

788
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:10,480
from that very january she was sharing

789
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:13,200
stephen greer's um citizen hearings

790
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,799
videos from youtube

791
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:15,760
so

792
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:17,279
there clearly was an interest in the

793
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,320
subject

794
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:20,240
not to say that proves it didn't happen

795
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,039
but

796
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:22,960
straight straight away there's an issue

797
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:24,799
there with the witness

798
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,440
and how sincere they may being

799
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,679
and are they looking for something that

800
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,200
wasn't there

801
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:33,200
dave is that the root you tend to think

802
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:34,799
with this as well

803
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:37,600
well if she had no interest in ufos then

804
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,919
what was she doing in a couple of camp

805
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:41,120
chairs

806
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,480
in the middle of a february night

807
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,480
freezing cold watching a military

808
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:47,760
exercise and then the next day

809
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,960
doing a move on light investigation in

810
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,720
the local area

811
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:54,640
um you know they went out

812
00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:56,720
diet counters they went out

813
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:59,360
asking questions of the military that

814
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:00,720
was there

815
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,000
and she even described what she said was

816
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:06,480
a pyramidal ufo that just appeared from

817
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:08,880
nowhere and then

818
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,559
the military started firing on it and

819
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,559
there was this whole dog fight but she

820
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:14,399
claimed this whole incident lasted four

821
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:15,679
minutes

822
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:18,240
now if she had no interest in ufos prior

823
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:19,679
what was she doing there in the first

824
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,720
place

825
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,559
at this time of night

826
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:24,720
and how did she know

827
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:27,279
that the military was waiting for a ufo

828
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:28,559
to appear

829
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:30,240
graham you want to come in on that one

830
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:31,039
yeah

831
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,720
part of the i heard an interview she was

832
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:34,960
talking about uh hercules aircraft uh

833
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,760
raf hercules transports chasing after uh

834
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:39,520
whatever this thing was

835
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,679
around around the area now that would

836
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,880
have taken probably more than four

837
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:44,720
minutes because those aircraft don't

838
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,039
turn on a dime you know they take a long

839
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:48,960
time to turn around and to fly up and

840
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:50,159
down valleys and all the rest of it

841
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,760
they're not the aircraft that i would

842
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:53,520
choose if i was chasing after you know

843
00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:54,640
what i might thought would might have

844
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:56,720
been quite a highly maneuverable object

845
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,440
uh it it they seemed strange aircraft to

846
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:01,840
be involved in some kind of chasing down

847
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:04,240
like you know the the hunters after the

848
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:06,320
uh the hounds after the quarry kind of

849
00:30:09,029 --> 00:30:07,360
chase

850
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:09,039
none of this really made sense to me

851
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:10,559
either

852
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,240
what i would ask is

853
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:14,240
are there any elements and we'll start

854
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:16,799
with graham on this of this story that

855
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:19,679
you do think are particularly strange or

856
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:21,760
or do you feel there's enough there that

857
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:24,880
you can cover with rational explanations

858
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:26,159
i've not come across anything

859
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:27,840
particularly can't necessarily be

860
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:29,919
explained away whether or not they can

861
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:32,159
all be explained away in terms of you

862
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,960
know the entire um kind of information

863
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,320
the things that were going on that night

864
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,640
i i can't say but there's enough there

865
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,399
that they've come up with that other

866
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,399
people and myself and dave and others

867
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,000
have looked at and go well actually this

868
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:46,080
could explain that and it fits in with

869
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,200
the night itself then to me there's not

870
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,600
much going on here um

871
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,600
i don't know the every element of the

872
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:56,320
story because there are there may be

873
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,519
things that they haven't either

874
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,880
mentioned or there may be things i've

875
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:00,559
missed but all the things i've come

876
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:02,880
across this team seems to be some kind

877
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:04,640
of rational explanation for it and then

878
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:06,399
there are other elements of the story

879
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,519
which simply have been refuted so the

880
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:12,000
mention about the hospital um you know

881
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:13,840
being shaken to its it's about its

882
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:15,840
foundations i believe that was one

883
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,360
element of the story and yet the

884
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,120
hospital made you know they have have

885
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:21,360
been questioned and there's no such

886
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:22,960
record of you know anything like that

887
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,440
actually happening so there's a few

888
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:27,360
elements that including also the

889
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,279
motorway being shut the m4 motorway

890
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:31,039
apparently being shut because of the

891
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:33,679
incident uh and yet there's again

892
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,679
there's no you know uh sort of uh

893
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:37,760
corroboration on that score either so

894
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:39,120
there's elements of the story which have

895
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,080
been suggested which don't add up either

896
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,600
so i'm afraid looking as a whole

897
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,760
it none of it actually makes any sense

898
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,600
at all to me anyway and that's just a

899
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,440
personal observation i've got nothing

900
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:53,679
against the person concerned i have no

901
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:56,640
wish to try and knock something down but

902
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:59,519
i'm not i'm not gonna like stand by and

903
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:02,000
and let things just you know sort of be

904
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,159
played out when this seems to be a

905
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,080
completely rational explanation for it i

906
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:08,240
don't like myths getting propagated

907
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:09,760
and dave what about yourself anything

908
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:11,679
for you that stands out as still being

909
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,880
unusual or unexplainable

910
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:16,720
the only thing that i

911
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,679
need to investigate a bit more is the

912
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,840
radiation and the emf readings that were

913
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:23,440
taken

914
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,080
because there's some slight discrepancy

915
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:28,080
but you know some people have suggested

916
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,279
that

917
00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:31,600
chasm whoever it was who was doing it

918
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:33,279
were reading the instruments wrong they

919
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,720
had basic level

920
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:36,159
well entry-level

921
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:38,399
diver counters and emf readers and they

922
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,880
were just unfamiliar with

923
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:42,240
the um

924
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:43,919
the items they were using they did

925
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:45,600
weren't sure how to use them so they

926
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:46,480
just

927
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:48,080
put out a load of data and hope that

928
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,000
somebody would take a look at it and

929
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:52,640
confirm what their story was

930
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,200
i mean what we do need to say is

931
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:57,679
um this pyramid that she claimed to have

932
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:58,799
seen

933
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,720
um

934
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:02,640
you know kind of made the same sort of

935
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:04,960
shape as you would expect with parachute

936
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,320
jumpers igniting flares and then

937
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:10,720
falling in a leaf-like motion

938
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:11,760
and then

939
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:13,840
the kind of shape that they make as they

940
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,760
come down lower to the ground it does

941
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:17,519
look like a pyramid

942
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,320
and her original sketches do show

943
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:22,240
you know that kind of formation although

944
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,679
later on

945
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:25,679
that's changed to an inverted pyramid

946
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:27,200
once people started making the

947
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:28,960
connection between pyramid you know

948
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:30,720
parachute flares

949
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,919
um another thing that she claims is that

950
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:35,679
one of the crowd

951
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:37,919
she claims many craft a few other craft

952
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,200
as well and one was damaged and flew

953
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:43,039
into the local

954
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:45,440
um well clantrisson forest also known

955
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:48,000
locally as smiling woods apparently this

956
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,679
ufo came down and hit some of the trees

957
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,600
and damage some of them and cause the

958
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:55,679
burn marks on the trunks

959
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:58,399
now the problem i have with that is

960
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,799
that there was an outbreak

961
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:03,200
of a certain

962
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:04,720
disease called

963
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,799
large tree disease

964
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:08,480
if you want the

965
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,720
the latin name it's phytophthora remorum

966
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:15,280
for those uh

967
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,399
it sounds

968
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:18,000
very hardy

969
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:21,280
yeah exactly and it's easy for me to say

970
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,399
um but this they discovered an outbreak

971
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:26,560
in uh clantus and forest and smiled

972
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:29,919
woods in 2015 of this disease and this

973
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:32,879
will affect the coloration of the bark

974
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,879
of the trees due to resin

975
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:36,159
um

976
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,720
being bleeded out of the bark

977
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,320
and she claims that there were white

978
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:42,720
burn marks on these trees now i don't

979
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:43,760
know

980
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,359
wood

981
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:49,440
what color do you get at the end of it

982
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:52,240
you know it's not white is it it's black

983
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:53,839
because it's carbon based and it you

984
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:56,079
know you'll get black burn marks not

985
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:59,200
white so the white is obviously or could

986
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:01,359
be not obviously sorry

987
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,800
it could be

988
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,240
this resin

989
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:06,400
which is affecting the trees i mean she

990
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:08,160
claims that

991
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:09,760
the trees were snapped in half by this

992
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:12,640
craft although the canopy

993
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,440
in the surrounding area is pristine

994
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,119
um

995
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:19,839
and these trees were actually felled and

996
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:26,390
but she seems to think that there's some

997
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:29,040
whole conspiracy by the national

998
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:30,560
forestry

999
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,400
group that you know they just remove

1000
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:34,640
these trees to fight to cover up any

1001
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:38,079
details of an alleged crash

1002
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,440
and i think when it comes to this just

1003
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:42,000
to re-emphasize that

1004
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,000
it's you're not but none of us are

1005
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:46,000
outright calling someone a liar but with

1006
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,119
any ufo case there are sometimes people

1007
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,200
who embellish their stories they

1008
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,680
misidentify they misremember

1009
00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:55,760
but some people sometimes do have very

1010
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:57,839
vivid imaginations and i can't help

1011
00:36:01,670 --> 00:36:00,160
personally think on this occasion that

1012
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:01,680
this is what's happened that someone has

1013
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:04,480
taken parts of a story and ran with it

1014
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:06,800
and then embellished on top of that

1015
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:08,880
again that's just my opinion i i would

1016
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:11,200
ask people that they like graham and

1017
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:12,960
like dave have go and do some of the

1018
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,760
research and go and look at some of the

1019
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,680
interviews kaz and others have maybe

1020
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:19,440
done on the subject listen to some of

1021
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,040
the read some of the articles there's

1022
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:23,599
plenty of them if you set search pentak

1023
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,040
at ufo

1024
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,200
but then listening to this listen to

1025
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:29,040
what graham and dave have said

1026
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:30,480
themselves what they've found out what

1027
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:32,079
they've researched they've done some

1028
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,599
great work on it if you've got questions

1029
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:35,440
get in touch with them especially on

1030
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,960
twitter where they spend a lot of their

1031
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,480
their spare time

1032
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:40,240
and ask them to you know to converse

1033
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:42,480
because they'll happily do that um and

1034
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:44,160
the reason they've joined me on this is

1035
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:45,680
because we still have people getting in

1036
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,480
touch asking about this case and i i

1037
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:50,640
think just in this short podcast that

1038
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:52,720
you two gents have put forward a very

1039
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:54,800
reasonable argument as to why this

1040
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:56,400
wasn't something

1041
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:58,960
et or ut or whatever it may have been it

1042
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:01,680
was very much a human explanation i'll

1043
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:03,520
just ask you both to kind of wrap up for

1044
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:05,839
this one uh dave if you want to add

1045
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:08,640
anything before we head off yeah it was

1046
00:37:13,349 --> 00:37:11,440
just uh regarding the military

1047
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,359
uh people that they encountered the

1048
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:15,839
following day um the next days and they

1049
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,440
said oh they're in hazmat suits and they

1050
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:19,920
were combing the ground and they had a

1051
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:23,440
laptop in a huge heavy duty case

1052
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,640
well the laptop case is typical of those

1053
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:28,560
used

1054
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:30,000
when you're trying to protect sensitive

1055
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,760
electronics from emp devices so it

1056
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:35,520
stands to reason why

1057
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,160
you know if they're on a

1058
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:37,599
counter-terrorism exercise and there's a

1059
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:40,560
possibility of you know emp

1060
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,640
you know low-level

1061
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,240
charges or whatever like that it stands

1062
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,480
to reason that you would protect any

1063
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,480
equipment that you're using

1064
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,079
and with regards to the people in the

1065
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,040
hazmat and the supposed uh clean up

1066
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:56,240
operation or debris removal as is

1067
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:57,359
claimed

1068
00:38:02,790 --> 00:37:59,280
that is standard

1069
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,800
operation for any military training um

1070
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,280
which is carried out you know on private

1071
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:08,160
land or you know national trust land or

1072
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:09,599
anything like that

1073
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:11,839
it's so that they can

1074
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:15,040
you know clear up any male shards or

1075
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,800
any

1076
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,880
kind of equipment shell cases or

1077
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,200
anything like that which could damage

1078
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,040
livestock or

1079
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:25,359
you know cause serious injury to or

1080
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:28,160
damage to farm machinery or

1081
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:30,000
private machinery or anything like that

1082
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,359
so that what she encountered is actually

1083
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:35,440
official protocol after a training event

1084
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:36,480
anyway

1085
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:38,560
perfectly fair and graham what about

1086
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:39,920
yourself anything you want to add before

1087
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,240
we finish up yeah just just the various

1088
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,400
elements of the story would and if the

1089
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,079
if they were to be true then it would

1090
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:48,240
mean that the cover-up would have to be

1091
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:50,240
in the hands of not just the military

1092
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:52,880
but also south wales police uh the local

1093
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,280
forestry commission possibly the council

1094
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:57,760
possibly the hospital authorities

1095
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:59,680
so i think we're looking at too much

1096
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:01,599
here i think we're looking at a story

1097
00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:02,480
which

1098
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:04,000
yeah it seems as you said before may

1099
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,839
have just been blown out of proportion

1100
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,720
um

1101
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:08,640
again i'm not wanting to you know so do

1102
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,079
any kind of hatchet job on the people

1103
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:12,160
concerned i don't know them personally

1104
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:13,440
but it just seems to me that this

1105
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:16,320
story's been um embellished you know way

1106
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:18,960
beyond um anything that you know it

1107
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:21,440
might have once resembled graham what

1108
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:23,119
are you working on at the moment any

1109
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:24,640
more books in the pipeline you seem to

1110
00:39:27,829 --> 00:39:26,480
be churning them out at the moment yeah

1111
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:27,839
the books tend to be on aviation

1112
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:29,200
subjects though at the moment i'm not

1113
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:31,359
actually do i wasn't writing a ufo one

1114
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,960
um last month

1115
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,480
i am actually working on the initial

1116
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:36,400
stages of the next foo fighter book

1117
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:38,720
which covers the pacific but i'm also

1118
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,560
sort of toying with the idea of doing a

1119
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:42,720
um a kind of general book about ufo

1120
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,720
cover-ups uh in terms of you know

1121
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,040
investigations so i'm looking at what i

1122
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:49,680
can maybe put out in terms of a book

1123
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:52,079
that's more aimed at people outside ufo

1124
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:54,079
twitter so the general public to get

1125
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:55,599
them in board in terms of you know the

1126
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:57,839
history of of investigations and how

1127
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:59,119
they were twisted to try and say look

1128
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,960
there's nothing here to see um a bit

1129
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:02,800
like ross coulthard's book but just

1130
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:05,520
concentrating on that issue so um i'll

1131
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,960
have a think about that between here now

1132
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:08,880
and christmas and then see what i come

1133
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,839
up with excellent sounds good and dave

1134
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,760
of course we've got the the next issue

1135
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:15,520
of the magazine due out soon you were

1136
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:17,359
teasing earlier on online do you want to

1137
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:18,640
tell us a little bit about that and what

1138
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,240
we can expect

1139
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,160
yeah well if people

1140
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,480
weren't aware i've had some uh private

1141
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:26,960
family health matters over the past few

1142
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,839
months which has delayed um

1143
00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:31,359
the issue that was supposed to be out

1144
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:33,920
back in august or the start of september

1145
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,720
so three months later than planned um

1146
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,640
that will be out hopefully within the

1147
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:40,000
end of the week we can talk about that

1148
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,520
another time

1149
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:43,280
yeah we will we'll do a short preview

1150
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:45,280
pod on the magazine like we're done for

1151
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:46,960
for the last one which people enjoyed as

1152
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,280
well so again gentlemen thank you very

1153
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,720
much for your time this has been very

1154
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:52,640
late notice but i hope it's given people

1155
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:54,640
some food for thought on top of that as

1156
00:41:00,309 --> 00:40:56,960
well lots more to come next up on the

1157
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:00,319
podcast we have the kgra live at 11 p.m

1158
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:03,040
uk time on friday the 3rd of december

1159
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,599
but also the interview with mary rodwell

1160
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,359
who will be coming out in the coming

1161
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:09,200
days too so thank you very much and

1162
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,880
speak to you soon

1163
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:12,960
that is all for this week's show thank

1164
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,960
you very much for listening please

1165
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:16,960
remember to leave the podcast to review

1166
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:19,599
on your chosen platform you can like

1167
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:21,920
retweet and subscribe that would all be

1168
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:23,839
very much appreciated the shows are

1169
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:26,000
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

1170
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:27,520
more and more you can sign up at

1171
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:30,079
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

1172
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:32,800
podcast access shows ad free as well

1173
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:34,960
please get in touch on twitter facebook

1174
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:37,839
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

1175
00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:40,960
twitter it's at ufouapam

1176
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:43,119
and again folks as always keep looking

1177
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:46,090
up you never know what you might see

1178
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:06,550
alice

1179
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:12,430
is

1180
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:28,390
[Music]

1181
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:42,950
cuz

1182
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:44,309
there was something on my head and

1183
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:46,000
everything was weird and everything was

1184
00:42:57,310 --> 00:42:48,000
red i helped my boys they thought this

1185
00:44:14,390 --> 00:43:16,800
[Music]

1186
00:44:25,870 --> 00:44:16,290
it's very different

1187
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:41,750
[Music]

1188
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,420
yes